Hello Friends

I have been thinking for a while now that the short life of our maps is quite a problem for me.

As a longterm player I have noticed spawns for example getting less and less added to by the community.

When I joined we had Pirate Spawn, it was impressive, busy and immense and the map generally felt busy and well populated.

There may be some reason I am not aware of for the 6 month reset rule, but I am here to ask if there is anyone else out there who is hesistant to build because of the short lifespan of our maps?

If we can start a dialogue on this subject maybe we can determine if the 6 month reset could be changed by our beautiful Broons

The reason we had the 6 month reset rules is that when we used to have one map.

6 months and 2 spawns later would usually be how long the map would last before people had explored everywhere and were getting bored. It started getting to the stage where there wasn't a great amount to do. If you went mining you'd run into lots of other peoples mines even far out. Going to build a new project you would end up wandering for ages looking for decent unclaimed land.
In turn the map refresh was needed and it would always draw a lot of people back into the server.

At the moment though maps do technically have a longevity of 1 year now as they will be the old map for another 6 months, just won't be as active as the main world.

In my opinion, Poots has a good point.


Regarding spaw:

Its hard to tell why nobody ever builds at spawn anymore, Ive been wondering that myself. It is probably several reasons, one being that people are constantly buzy rebuilding their homes and essentials (farms, item storages, houses, animals etc) in new worlds, thus never getting time to have a second home at spawn with random lolstuffs in it. this will result in spawn being void of regulars. Pay attention to the first spawn of every single new map we've had for 3 maps now. they Never(!) look good. Second one is better and third one is either abandoned or full of epic win. Furthermore, the third spawn is very often abandoned if a map reset time has been announced. Has anyone had the same observations about this?

By the way, megabananas spawn suggestion addresses this matter by having alot of the plots already filled with buildings of other than cobble-ugly and cheap planks.


Regarding Map reset:

Its very discouraging to build anything big when the map gets reset anyway in 3 months. We were discussing this issue with Hovind and Mortocus yesterday while working on an item sorter system.
we will be done with it, only to use it for a few months time, and then rebuild it in new world.

even tho the sorter can still exists in the old world for another 6 months, it is a hassle to live in an abandoned world only accessible trough spawn portal or cross-world warps. The old world is as dead as singleplayer at the very minute it turns into old world.

When reading Qotsas post about the reset system, it is clear to me that the 6 months reset period was implemented during a time when the server was much more active than now. If you look at the old_world_2 on livemap, it does not look like an old world at all. There are few builds and only a few big ones. I remember the really old maps when there was no free land to find and it was a real issue back then, but the last map was not in any way lacking free space.

ASA headquarters is at 2500, -1800. A fort, immensely resurce costly, time consuming and elaborate with potion rooms, storage areas, training fascilities, Armories and Intelligence rooms. it never got to taste action. Rebuilding it seems pointless and is VERY discouraging since all i do is rebuild ASA HQ map after map after map after map.

So yeah, Poots, you are not the only one who feels hesitant when starting projects.

404 has pretty much said exactly how I feel about it.

After the last map where I did do a couple of big builds and I felt the map was reset too soon, I'm reluctant to invest much time in the new one - building is my main interest in MC so if I've not got a project I don't play much.

I too would like to see a return to awesome spawns - its what first made me want to play on CFUK.

I appreciate there's nothing stopping anyone doing an awesome spawn but I also understand why people haven't recently.

Maybe, as there are fewer players now*, it might be better to have a smaller map initially, and then expand after 6 months rather than resetting? That would give each map a 12 month duration which is long enough for everyone to get their bases established and then put some time into community builds/impressive spawns?

I actually think that having old maps hang around so long discourages investment in the new maps - all my stuff is still in old world because I can't be bothered to build somewhere to store it and then move it all when I know it'll happen again in 3 months.

*I don't mean just recently - I've never felt that a map was getting used up or short of space since I've been playing here so I assume Q is referring to a pre-Bennyfingers era which must have been a dark time indeed

When I first started, the spawn was a nether fortress and everywhere I looked, there were buildings. I didn't know how to get out of the place because it was massive, but later on the maps were getting more green and less buildings.
I finally was able to build a house. When i went mining, I ran into many other mines and forgot which mine was mine and which were others (because I don't mine straight, I mine weirdly). I also couldn't find any animals so I survived on fruits till the map changed.
Then the previous map, I built a massive tree with Chango but before we could fully move in, the map was changed. I couldn't even enjoy the fact that I was living at sky height. The tree was our first big project and now I hardly ever see it.
The map we're on so far has nothing but green grass and trees. I hardly see any buildings or anything. We have more places to mine and more animals to kill. My house atm is wip but I'm not really bothered to finish it because I know there isn't much time till the map changes again.

Tbh with the server being less active and with us having access to far more worlds now I wouldn't really put it down as us needing a 6 month limit.

I do like bennys idea of starting with a smaller map and expanding at the 6 month mark. Going back quite a few maps this is what we used to do to keep the map interesting and it worked! we would get quite a few people back onto the server during the period of the new map size.

As stated by benny, the map isn't getting used as much as it use to be, so we're not as restricted, but I do agree with the fact that people may not build in the new map due to already being setup in an older map. I myself am one of these people. I had roughly 10 homes setup in the last map and sorting through them all to move stuff to the new map is a big chore seeing as though in 6 months time it will have to be done again. 1 thing that made map changed interesting a while back was the Armageddon chests. you could only take one chest of items across to the new world with you so from the start you were a little limited. Some would take valuables such as diamonds etc, others useful tools and armour. And I would take all the tnt I could carry, which meant that in a way everyone on the new map was on a level footing, but nobody had any fall back. Everyone had the same amount of items it was just down to your choosing, so it then did make things more interesting. Another good thing about the chests was that people didn't have to take things across if they didn't want to, so some people could get a completely fresh start.

If people aren't inclined to use the Armageddon chest style then maybe keep the old map open for 1 month say, so it give people more then enough time to get some of their old gear out of the old map and move it across.

Bear in mind however with less people on the sever, spawn won't get built up as much anyway as there will be a smaller contribution to it. In this case maybe a smaller project spawn is required which could be themed to keep people interested, and maybe shift the spawn around every 4 months or so with a different theme and move the map lifetime to 1 year. That will mean 3 new and different spawns each time hopefully keeping people more interested, and if spaced out well, will utilise the map better.

Heck could even have a spawn change every 6 months but make the spawn creation a big server wide project. Who knows the ideas are limitless.

It does seem at the moment though, that people may only start projects within the first 3 months of a maps life span. I will admit I don't tend to after that point as in some cases by the time you finish you may not be able to enjoy the build for very long.

(* Apologies for the essay, kept getting ideas while part way through writing it *)

The map lifetime is guaranteed for the next 3 months regardless of player count, after that it follows a rule.

The rule basically was, that the map would get reset when we seen player counts drop the average for a period of time, to replenish those levels, players usually wanted something new to explore and start over, hence the map reset. 100% of the time when a map reset occurred, player counts would increase dramatically, players want something new.

If the player counts stay up, the map will stay. If the player counts drop for an extended period of time, it'll be refreshed.

If you don't want the map to reset, keep playing.

I think the last map reset was a little premature we still had plenty of usage left on the old map, the spawn had been moved and that boosted things so another spawn move would have been fine, also at the time I thought why do a reset now when the horse update was on its way and it would be better to wait for that. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

Personally I would like to see a map reset sooner rather than later simply to bring in the new horse aspect throughout the map, I agree it would be good to really limit the map size at the beginning and expand it as new updates come out that need newly generated areas for them to spawn in.

I wouldn't call myself a builder, I love exploring and tend to head straight for unexplored areas but once not much is left to explore I find a spot and build, build. build or look for projects at spawn like my firework tower at last spawn.. For this spawn I hardly know what it looks like as I have not been interested in it as I had my bases back at old world and simply wanted to find horses.

I just thought, I think it would be awesome to start a new world with vanilla UHC settings on, death counters and nothing available from old worlds, no prebuilt spawn and so we have to start from scratch. Make a launch event (email all members so they don't miss it) and just see how it evolves, there will be lots of collaboration to survive and if we limit the map size to say 2k x 2k for the first few months people will have to build and remain fairly local to spawn at least for a while.

WAAA!!! Please don't bring back the armageddon chests, I hated those!

I like the idea of starting with small maps and expanding them later to get more free area. That way map lifetime could be extended.
I have hard feelings when the amazings builds are lost when old maps are deleted.

I cant agree more. I've argued for a while that our maps reset way too often. Make bigger maps that last longer. One reason I don't care to play vanilla right now is that its going to be reset too quickly, so what's the point. I've only been on this server a little over a year and we've already been through something like 3-4 resets. Way too many.

I have felt for awhile that the maps are changed too often, as are the spawns. I love to build, and have always liked the idea of a spawn build but I've yet to make one because I've seen so many spawns come and go.

I too joined with the pirate ship spawn, and the usefulness, plain cool factor, and the silly builds like spleef, were a major reason why I joined here (besides the company).

Maybe what a spawn "is" should be reconsidered.

All of the spawns I've seen seemed driven by the idea of a business community, and if you wanted to live there, feel free. Most people won't though, as the grief threat is so high. So we end up with businesses that are barely used, and few live-in spawn residents.

I would like to suggest a spawn that has a modest business area, but is more residential driven. Maybe make lots that are several hundred squared in a grid like layout that is so spaced out it still feels natural from within the lots.

This way, we can all get our spacious lands , while living near people and watching each others backs from griefers.

If the player counts stay up, the map will stay. If the player counts drop for an extended period of time, it'll be refreshed.

BRooNiE

For me this just adds uncertainty.

I could launch into an epic build on the current map but I can't control what anyone else does, so it still may well be reset before I'm ready to move on. It's a negative way of thinking but experience supports it.

When the last reset happened we'd just built Qotz! which would have made an interesting new spawn and Poot's fairground (which attracted loads of interest from players) was interrupted and never got finished.

It seems like a rule that's designed to make the server 'appear' as popular as possible to people outside the server.

It seems strange to me to value the server by the numbers boost when you reset the map. The people who turn up for a new map are by definition attracted to novelty which means they aren't going to stay very long or put much into the community.

If you look to world generation for novelty then of course you're going to get bored quickly.

People who build privately or publicly, or organise events/games, or set up organisations within CFUK are creating their own novelty (and a lot of novelty for other players too) and that's a limitless well which ought to be encouraged, I think.

The underwhelming spawn issue isn't Broonie's responsibility - that one's solely on us - and belongs in another thread. But I do think we'd see better spawns if we had 12 month maps. I'd certainly be up for building one.

*snip*

Discussion re-opened.

Going forward, I will no longer actively participate in discussion but rather monitor. I feel it does more harm than good.

Thanks

I think the idea of a smaller map to start with, and then grow it as needed is a good idea.

The only other issue I can think of (that I don't think I've seen mentioned so far) is when there is a major update to Minecraft or a new version. From what I've seen, members want to play with the latest vanilla features asap, but as far as I understand, if there have been lots of changes to Minecraft, a map reset is required.

As far as people not contributing to builds at spawn either for their own use or to help another member(s), I was probably of the same opinion as others who choose to find their own plot (away from spawn) and build a nice House / Base / Torture Chamber / etc. Then build up resources to help others out / build a community resource.

However, on the current vanilla map I've gone a different way and claimed a small island, built a small home to house materials, and then set about building a PVP arena (which is prooving to be a pain to build - clearing water is boring!).

I think if there is the need to change maps due to major updates / new releases and it's possible to do so, people should be able to go between the two maps freely (if this is possible) so that at least you can bring all your materials and possesions through to the new world. This would greatly speed up building a new spawn and allow long-term players to keep what they've worked so hard for. If you don't want to take anything from your old build and want to start afresh, just don't go back to the old world

Hmm, difficult...

I might have a couple ideas on this, but they each have their own possible complications:


[1]
One solution to the issue of people wanting new land to explore is removing the borders, but that could make it a lot harder to put any maps up for download.

Also to mention, Broonie may want to keep infinite maps disallowed due to an incident where a user used a method to rapidly generate ludicrous amounts of land...this could very well still be relevant.

[2]
Assuming the new map interval stays the same, one possible fix to people not designing Spawn due to it being reset often is to use a tool to transfer parts of it to the new map. Could even put up a community vote whether to start over or not.

However, this gives Broonie more work to deal with, although he could let users do the transfer work for him if he wished. Unfortunately they'd need to download the map to do so, assuming Broon uploads the whole thing. This may not fit so well if the map were to be infinite...


Although I don't think they're particularly likely...just throwing those ideas out there just in case.

(Also, I'm still around. Hi guys!)

Í think that the map should be reset when an update that requires newly loaded chunks is released. 1.7 will have new biomes and will require us players, to go the edge of the map to find new chunks to generate.

If the server is almost empty the entire time, I think a good way is to reset them map, to get some players back on the server.

I would like to suggest a way of resetting the maps that addresses the issues of updates, map population and big projects motivation in a good manner.

here are some points with relevance to the suggestion:

1.
It is clear that the 1.7 update will introduce a ton of new content to the game and since most of the content involves around new terrain generation, a new map is hard to avoid in order to follow the evolution of Minecraft as a game. It is still uncertain when 1.7 comes out and what a possible 1.8 update will bring with it. Will 1.8 also require a new map in order to get to all the new content in the game, or will it be enough to extend borders from a previous map? Hopefully, 1.8 will not force a new map wipe and luckily the time between updates is long. This is however very hard to influence by us players and unfortunately, Mojang sometimes enforces a fresh start on us.

2.
Before the 6months reset system, we reset the map either trough a poll on the website or due to an update that requred a map wipe. The polls were posted by broonie on the front page after alot of regulars and active players expressed their wishes for a fersh start. Sometimes the poll went trough and a map reset took place, other times the poll failed and a map reset took place at a later poll or a game update.

3.
When you build a huge castle, you get attached to it in many different ways. All the hard work of gathering materials, planning, designing and building pays off in the form of a nice castle that you and others can see. The castle becomes a payment for all your hard work.

During the process of building, you design, learn new ways of building, discover new color mixes and create interesting shapes and cool details. You know every detail about the castle and feel enriched after it is done. The castle becomes a creation and a sedimental value is attached to it for you personally.

Perfecting the castle to fit specific needs makes you think of the original idea you had that made you start building. The shape, size, details and colors reflect upon the idea. The castle is a realisation of a good idea. a vision or an experiment based on seen potential.

4.
Point 3 is what makes us build big. Point 3 is what motivates us to use alot of time to create something nice. Either its a small, 10x10x5 house or a 200x200 castle, the time we spend on the project must be in proportion with the time we get to live/use/see the project when done. If the time is in proportion, we obtain satisfaction. If we loose the build prematurely to obtaining satisfaction from it, we feel that something is lost.

It is very obvious that satisfaction is hard to archieve when the map reset time is known. It is like a deadline, and when it is closing in, we stop building big since satisfaction cannot be obtained during that short of a timespan. However, if the time of a map reset is unannounced, we are ignorant of the fact that we might not obtain satisfaction from our building.
If we dont know the time of a map reset, we dont consider it as a factor for determing our motivation.

Ignorance is bliss and ignorance is a stronger motivator than knowledge.

---------------------------------------------------------
it became a very long post. Without further ado, My suggestion for the map reset system from days date is:

1. Map gets reset when 1.7 comes out and will be 4k big (from 2000 to -2000 x and y)
2. spawn point is centered on the map.
3. a poll should be announced if an old world is present or not, and if not, do members get access to any kind of armageddon chests.
4. Wichever comes first, land gets overly populated or a game update forces the need for fresh land, Map borders get extended on one axis at a time, like so:

Original map borders:
x 2000 to -2000 and y 2000 to -2000
First extension:
x 6000 to -2000 and y 2000 to -2000
Second extension:
x 6000 to -2000 and y 6000 to -2000

5. Spawn points get moved to the center of new land area after every extension. Second extension has the possibility to have an additional spawn chage.
6. Map extension time is decided by broonie and the moderators when it seems reasonable.
7. Map reset is decided by the community trough a Poll. The poll is posted when a fair amount of players express the need on the forums. If the poll fails, map stays until a new poll is posted when a fair amount of players express the need on the forums again.


Thanks for reading, This is my suggestion
404thread

Do you mean
Original map borders:
x: 2000 to -2000 and z: 2000 to -2000
First extension:
x: 6000 to -2000 and z: 2000 to -2000
Second extension:
x: 6000 to -2000 and z: 6000 to -2000?

Given the fact that Y is vertical and is a set 256

Guessing he did lew.

Gotta agree with 404 there maybe the best way to determine map changes is via a poll. Then the server will always be going the way that the majority wants it to.